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Amy Cavanaugh: Welcome to Dish From Chicago Magazine. I’m Amy Cavanaugh, Chicago magazine’s dining editor.

John Kessler: And I’m John Kessler, Chicago magazine’s dining critic.

Amy: And today we’re chatting with local food writer Chandra Ram, who wrote a great piece in our current issue about how to add Chicago touches to your Thanksgiving feast, plus we’ll share the best things we’ve eaten lately, which includes a soothing pho just right for colder weather.

Amy: We’re joined today by writer Chandra Ram, a local freelance food writer who was most recently on staff at Food & Wine. Chandra wrote a piece for our November issue about some ways to add Chicago flavor to your Thanksgiving table, and she broke things up by appetizers, entrees, sides, mains, and leftovers. So we’re going to go through some of her tips for how to pull Chicago flavor into your meal. You want to start with apps, Chandra? What are some of your favorite ways to incorporate Chicago flavor into the start of the meal?

Chandra Ram: So thanks for having me on. I really love the idea of incorporating a lot of Chicago ingredients and restaurants and flavors. When I’m having people over for Thanksgiving, especially, we’ve got family in from all over the country, but it’s hard to get everybody around to all of these restaurants. And appetizers are a great way to incorporate different products, because they’re they’re flexible, they’re easy, they’re not so much of that Thanksgiving cannon of dishes that have been passed down for years and that people don’t want you to experiment with. So it’s so easy to go to Lardon, pick up some charcuterie, pick up some different accompaniments for that. I love going over to Beautiful Rind, just to see what kind of cheeses that they’ve got there, they have a lot of, like, really fun snacks that I think are also conversation starters, and that can be really nice, especially when you’ve got family around and everybody, like, everybody’s together and wants to be together, but you might have your in laws who don’t know your cousin, and you want to make sure there’s nice opportunities to spark conversation. So I always love something like the smoked Portuguese sardines, the lemon herb mussels. Those are easy things for people to start out with. And then had to talk about giardiniera, particularly since I’m chatting today with— Are you guys like now the giardiniera king and queen of Chicago, after all of the traffic and all of the conversation you’ve had about it? I call you that. So— 

Amy: I think we might be. 

Chandra: I love bringing in a jar of J.P. Graziano‘s giardiniera, or the jarred muffaletta as well is really fantastic to add to a charcuterie board and a cheese platter, and then, you know, a couple of other things from small producers, and that’s another great way to spark some conversation. Laura Yee is a Chicagoan who’s been a food writer for years. She started baking a couple of years ago, and has her own brand, Chinese Mom. And so she you can find her at farmer’s markets, online, at local shops. She does all kinds of different breads and things, cookies. I really love her chili crisp sourdough crackers. They’re just fantastic. And it’s just such a fun, flavor-filled moment for an appetizer platter. 

John: What would you use those with? 

Chandra: I think they’re really lovely with softer, creamier cheeses and dips and spreads, especially because it kind of tempers the brightness of the chili crisp and it just, and then, in turn, that kind of wakes things up. So anything kind of rich, anything kind of fatty, if you’ve got nduja, or any kind of like chicken liver spread, or something like that, they’ll also work especially well. 

John: Spicy.

Chandra: Weah. Well, you know, it’s Thanksgiving. You’ve got to add the spice wherever you can.

John:  Really, to combat the tryptophan.

Chandra: Keep them awake and keep them not talking about politics. That, those are the rules. 

Amy: Well, then that sets us up for the main event, the bird. What are some ways that you can kind of shake up your standard roast turkey?

Chandra: So it’s, you know, turkey is so sacrosanct at I think 95, 98% of Thanksgiving tables. But there are ways to make sure that it comes out not dry and not overcooked, and one of those is to baste your turkey with mayonnaise before it hits the oven. So if you want to do this kind of Chicago style and add another hit of flavor to a meat that is known for not having fully, like really big flavors, use Giardonnaise. So that’s a local brand. You can pick it up at specialty shops. I live near Gene’s Sausage Shop, and get it there. Publican Quality Meats has it as well. You can also order it online. So you basically just use your fingers to separate the skin from the meat and then spread some of the Giardonnaise between the skin and the meat, and then do another layer on top because it’s Thanksgiving, friends, so you need everything to be extra flavorful and fatty.

Amy: Fantastic. And how about if you want to shake something up or have another entree option?

Chandra: Yes. So we, I have a great idea, and this is if you feel like you’ve got enough people for one bird, one turkey, but not two. Or if you’re doing a smaller group, or if you just kind of want to mix things up a little bit and show off a great local restaurant. I love the rotisserie duck dinner from Duck Inn in Bridgeport. And that is, it’s— I always make sure and get there at least once a summer to eat some out on the patio. But you can also order it for pickup from the restaurant. You can order it on Goldbelly, if you’re not local, and it’s such a fantastic just decadent second main course to have that is super easy. They cook it perfectly. You can also order it from the restaurant with a few other accompaniments, if you like, and just add a little, you know, extra main course to your meal, and more talking points as well.

Amy: Yeah, I think that’s one of Chicago’s, like, best signature dishes. 

Chandra: Yes, absolutely, it’s one of the it’s, I mean, isn’t it something that, when you have people come to Chicago and they say, like, what are the dishes and the restaurants that they need to hit, isn’t this one of them?

Amy: That is absolutely one.

John: Yeah, Chandra, remember the time that you and I feasted on that dish after your husband very kindly changed my flat tire on my car?

Chandra: He went and changed the tire, and then we, you know, as you do, we went out for duck, And you guys washed your hands before attacking the duck with your fingers. So everything was fine. Everything was perfect.

John: Yeah, no, it was. It was kind of like a perfect evening in Bridgeport. So wow, that sounds like a great idea for Thanksgiving,

Amy: For sure. So sides, sides are always my favorite part of the meal. What are some of the ways you can kind of zhuzh those up.

Chandra: So sides are, you know, sides are tough, because you, you know, you can’t not serve mashed potatoes. I have not served mashed potatoes before, and then found myself making mashed potatoes at the last minute for everyone who was there, who was just horrified there wouldn’t be any. But you can do something kind of fun. Another vote for Bridgeport: the Bridgeport potato seasoning from the Spice House. They’ve got stores all over the city and in the suburbs, but that gives it a nice kind of a little bit of pepper, some herbs, just a little bit of a little nudge flavor wise, that I think is really fun. And then something else is that I, you know, I you know, I think, like a lot of people, I grew up eating the green bean casserole with crispy fried onions on top. And then as an adult, was like, this is fine, but it doesn’t have nearly as much flavor as it could. So one thing that’s new to me that I have now added into the rotation is the Local Style Potato Chips. Have you guys have these? I know they were serving them at the James Beard Awards and at other events around town, and I’ve seen them in a lot of local shops.

Amy: Yes, I am a big fan. I think they’re all great, but the hot dog flavor is my favorite. 

Chandra: See, I’m a giardiniera voter on those. But I will try hot dog-flavored potato chips again for you, Amy, because I trust your palate. My suggestion is, yes, do the crispy fried onions, but also crunch up a bunch of those potato chips and add them in there. And it’s just sort of like a little, it’s, you know, it’s a small little nod flavor-wise, but they also retain their crunch when they’re baked. So it’s really fun.

John: Here’s the question: Do you do it with the canned French green beans of your that our mothers used? Or do you upgrade it with fresh green beans?

Chandra: I use fresh green beans because, yeah, lots of reasons. No shame in your game, Kessler, if you’re using something else. But I like fresh green beans. In my more ambitious cooking years, I think I’ve, there’ve been one or two years when I made the crispy fried onions myself. 

Amy: Oh, wow.

Chandra: Yeah, that’s um. Um, I’m just gonna say that’s a bridge too far, that’s a lot, that’s a lot, that’s the kind of extra thing that you just shouldn’t do to yourself. But I usually, I always have crispy fried onions that I pick up at Patel Brothers, because you can buy giant bags of them at Indian grocery stores and then scatter them on top of all kinds of things.

John: And actually also those crispy fried shallots you get in like Thai and Southeast Asian markets are great.

Chandra: Those are so great. And then I just picked up some crispy fried garlic. You guys. My green bean casserole this year is going to be fantastic.

Amy: Yes, that sounds incredible.

John: I have a riddle for you guys. So I, we are taping this on October 15, and I just had Thanksgiving dinner. How is that possible?

Amy: Was it Canadian? 

John: It was, yeah. My wife’s Canadian. Canadian, yeah. 

Chandra: How was your Canadian Thanksgiving? What was the best thing you ate?

John: I mean, it was like Canadian Thanksgiving. Is a lot like American Thanksgiving with the beauteous addition of butter tarts. You always have butter tarts, and I just like eat far more of them than I should. This was the first year without my mother-in-law, so it was a little sad, but one of her granddaughters studied at her side, learned the butter tart recipe. It kind of tasted like hers, but tasted a little different, too. So they’re great, but, yeah, we had a lovely time. 

Chandra: Oh, good.

Amy: Yeah. Butter tarts have, like, a great addition to the dessert table.

John: Right? And if you anyone doesn’t know what they are, it’s like, you know, little tarts that are like pecan pie filling without the pecans. 

Chandra: I don’t think that you need to know what a butter tart is to want to eat one, because it just sounds so good. Like one, right? Like, butter beer we like, aren’t we in entering into the season, we’ll eat any kind of tart and anything that has butter in the name? 

John: Yeah, I think that’s absolutely right. 

Chandra: That’s where we are. That’s where we are. And then a couple of other sides to round things out. I love picking up some of Greg Wade’s sourdough from Pelican Quality Breads to use in the stuffing. I’m also a huge fan of the corn muffins from Honey Butter Fried Chicken, and I have made stuffing with those. Love it. Or you can also pick up a muffin mix at the restaurant or order it online, and then make those muffins. But get it. I like going to the restaurant to get them, because then I can also pick up some of that honey butter that’s like, salty and sweet and creamy and just fantastic. 

Amy: Yeah, that, I love those muffins and those sound perfect for Thanksgiving. Sticking on the sweet side, what are some meal finishers that you really like?

Chandra: I think this is so important to and actually, my friend John Kessler once said he, how much he appreciated the French way of entertaining, where, instead of trying to make every single thing, you know the best local bakers and you just go to one of them and say, Hey, I’m going to pick up dessert here and make my life easier. And there’s so many great, great, great options in Chicago. I love the sweet potato pie from Brown Sugar Bakery. So so good. Hits all the right seasonal notes. Kasama, Genie and her team always have some amazing pies and other sweets going on there. Lemon pecan pie is a nice addition to the table. It’s traditional, but it’s got that hit of lemon that’s brightening up the flavors. So it’s it’s just adding a touch of something cheffy and different. Daisies, obviously, what Leigh Omilinsky is doing there is just always fantastic. The apple crumble is super traditional, extra buttery, since that’s our secret second theme today. And then I am a big believer in having a giant tray of cookies with Thanksgiving as well, because it’s sort of, I don’t know there’s something about when you’re sitting around at the table and you just want to take a tiny little bite of something here and there. You can’t go wrong with some cookies and hot chocolate from Mindy’s Bakery.

Amy: Yeah, that sounds perfect. And I know you’ve had a good idea also for how to take advantage of the next-day leftovers.

Chandra: Next day leftovers, I think the sandwich the day after Thanksgiving is 90% as important as the meal itself. So I highly suggest a tray of take-and-bake croissants from Floriole in Lincoln Park. This makes sure that your sandwiches the next day are a little extra. They’re a little fun. You can play around with whatever you want to put in there. And who among us has ever left Floriole without grabbing some Kouign Amann or some other pastries as well. So you can add a like a nice little treat for the the cook and shopper as well. 

Amy: That sounds like a great idea. I feel like that next day, Thanksgiving leftovers I enjoy almost as much, if not even more, than actual Thanksgiving dinner. 

Chandra: Totally, isn’t it funny that you’re like, Oh, we just did this wonderful dinner. I would like my next meal to be on the sofa in sweats, watching a movie I’ve seen four times already.

John: And eating the exact same meal in sandwich form, right?

Chandra: And but if you, you know, if you’ve got a croissant from Floriole, then it’s still fancy, it’s still good, it’s still holiday worthy.

Amy: John, what’s the best thing you ate lately? 

John: So I’ve heard about this for a while, but I finally tried out Sunset Phở Caffe, which is on Clark very close to the Century Landmark theater, and we’ve always been looking for a good place to have a quick, not too expensive meal before a movie. This place is kind of funny, because the owners are a Yugoslav-heritage Vietnamese couple. She’s Vietnamese. He is of Slavic, I guess, Serbian extraction. And so they put ćevapčići you know, those really nice beef sausages, in everything. They put them in spring rolls. They put them in the pho. And so I got ćevapčići pho. And man, was that not like delicious on a cold evening before a movie with a nice Saigon beer. Just came quickly. Really funny old place with a nice crowd there, but you could get in without a reservation and be served pretty quickly. And it was just one of those, like, you know, charming old restaurants that there’s so many of in Chicago, and they’re just so quirky, but loved. 

Amy: It sounds great. 

John: Yeah, really, really fun. So how about you?

Amy: Well, mine’s gonna be a drink. I recently went to Bisous, which, as long time listeners know, this is one of my favorite bars in the city. Their fall menu is killer right now, we had four drinks, all excellent, but my favorite was the Morning Blossom, which, there’s always a freezer martini on the menu, so it’s kept ice cold. And this is a combination of Scofflaw Old Tom gin, Koval gin, so two local gins, smoked mango brandy, and Blanc and dry vermouth. Super complex. It’s floral, it’s fruity, it’s smoky, but no, no flavor, you know, overwhelms. It’s fantastic. Highly recommend swinging by for a martini before your dinner somewhere in the West Loop. 

John: Wow, that sounds really cool. And I love the idea of like, mixing different gins. I mean, that must just add another layer of complexity, huh?
Amy: Absolutely, yeah, really. I mean, we loved all four drinks we had, but this one was just like, Oh man, I’m gonna have to go back again soon for another one.