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Amy Cavanaugh: Welcome to Dish From Chicago Magazine. I’m Amy Cavanaugh, Chicago magazine’s dining editor.

John Kessler: And I’m John Kessler, Chicago magazine’s dining critic. 

Cavanaugh: Today we’re talking all things giardiniera, which we cover in depth in our new June-July issue. We have a recipe from Monteverde chef Sarah Grueneberg. We put together a list of our nine favorite ways to experience giardiniera around the city, and we have a taste test in which John names the No. 1 jarred version that you can get around town. We’ll get into all of that and more, and then we’ll wrap up by sharing the best things we’ve eaten lately, which includes a tavern-style pizza at a buzzy new hotspot.

Kessler: So I have to admit something, which is that I grew up in Chevy Chase Maryland, which is like the most un-Italian place in the entire East Coast. And so I did not know Chicago-style giardiniera very well before I moved here. I was, of course, familiar with the more Italian kind that isn’t, that’s just pickled vegetables, you know, packed in brine, but not in oil. So I learned to love it. After I moved here, I kind of figured out on my own that the very best pizza is a tavern-style, party-cut pizza covered with sausage and giardinara, and once I put that equation together, I have never looked back. How about you?

Cavanaugh: My relationship is very similar. I did not know what it was until I moved here as well. I’m from Western Massachusetts, and I grew up eating Greek pickled veggies called toursi, which is very similar to the Italian style. And so I always loved pickles, and that was always a favorite snack when I was a kid. So I’m going to take naturally to anything sort of like pickle-y and spicy, but yeah, it was a condiment that I didn’t know until I moved here, and now I love it, and I’m with you on pizza. 

One of the reasons we want to do this feature on giardiniera is it feels like we’re seeing it more and more lately, seeing it across all types of cuisines. We’re seeing it used in really novel ways. I think that chefs are really embracing that spicy, pickle-y flavor. We know that the Italian beef is having a moment thanks to The Bear. And so, you know where Italian beef goes, giardiniera follows. And so I think there are a number of reasons why we’re seeing it everywhere. I’m thrilled. I love, you know, anytime I can get some spicy food, and, you know, I love that it’s something that has such a strong Chicago connection. But as we were working on this, one thing that repeatedly came up is how to pronounce this word. There, it seems there are multiple ways there. I think there are two ways that are acceptable, and then I’ve heard many other ways that probably aren’t quite getting it right. John, how do you say it? 

Kessler: I mean, I kind of say jar-din-AIR, but that’s just because I want real Chicagoans to think I’m cool. But I don’t know the guy at my local pizza place says jar-din-AIR, so I follow his lead. How about you?

Cavanaugh: I say jar-din-AIR-ah with hitting the A at the end, but I feel like I maybe hear jar-din-AIR more, most frequently. I guess both are acceptable. I think Jeff Mauro has a t-shirt that says that, so, maybe it says jar-din-AIR-ah. The other giardiniera debate that I saw coming up when we were reporting this, and people feel very strongly about this, is whether there are olives or no olives. And I know some of the ones in your taste test had olives. Some didn’t. Do you have a preference?

Kessler: I mean, I never say no to an olive, so I’m, I’m, you know, Team Olive on this, but I can see why it doesn’t belong. I mean, it’s not a crispy, crunchy vegetable the way everything else is. And, you know, I can see getting into a bit of a lather about that, although, you know, life is short and I’d rather argue about other things.

Cavanaugh: At what point do you become a real Chicagoan? 

Kessler: My guess is never. I’m trying to think, I’ve been a — like, I felt like I became a real Atlantan after about 10 years. I still don’t feel like a real Chicago. And I don’t know, do you are you a real Chicagoan? I can’t tell.

Cavanaugh: I’ve been here 15 years, and I don’t think so. I feel like it’s one of these places you have to grow up here to truly be a Chicagoan. I don’t know.

Kessler: I mean, I’m learning. I’m saying like, you know, I’ll call it Jewel now, not Jewel-Osco, and I get nods of approval. So.

Cavanaugh: Every time I walk to get a tavern-style pizza and a bottle of soda on a Friday night, that’s when I feel like I’m a real Chicagoan. 

So we did a big Italian beef feature last fall, and we were thinking about, you know, what are some other classic Chicago foods that we should feature? And giardiniera seems an obvious one. So we thought about, you know, all the different facets of it. We love the version that Sarah Grueneberg makes at Monteverde. She puts it on her smoked fish dip, which we both love. And yes, and that one is so good, we named that one of our best dishes in the city back in 2023 and so when I knew we wanted a recipe, she was my first choice, and she said, Yes, so we have a recipe from her, and we also tapped chefs around town to get their tips for the best ways to make it. I think what’s cool about giardiniera is that there is no one single recipe, and so you can really take it and run with it and make it your own. And every chef makes it differently and so and they use it differently too, as you know, we kind of saw in the “Nine Best Ways to Experience Giardiniera”, which is kind of our anchor feature here. So we both contributed some some picks to this nine best ways list, you wrote about the longanisa and giardiniera pizza, at Novel Pizza. Why is that a great giardiniera experience? 

Kessler: Because the flavor is just so spot on. It is like that mixture of sweetness, porky, oily goodness and hot, spicy pickle business that just like, Wow, I love it. And it’s so, like, perfectly calibrated. So I think about that pizza very frequently, and I will tell anybody who’s listening that the trick is go in the middle of the afternoon when it’s not busy, get a pizza, wolf down three pieces while you’re there after it comes out, and then bring the rest home, and you will be a happy person. 

Cavanaugh: That sounds perfect. You also wrote about a dish from Meat Moot, which remains one of my favorite restaurant names in town. Tell me about this one.

Kessler: So Meat Moot is this like multinational chain restaurant with its headquarters in Turkey, and they make Halal smoked meat in these you know, this bank of smokers, when you walk in, it’s different kinds of cuts of beef and lamb. It is absolutely delicious, you know, just fall-apart, tender, delicious smoked meat that comes with a zillion different kinds of sauce and seasonings and side dishes. You pay for the meat by the pound and everything else is as much as you want. So when it comes to the table, they kind of localize it here with a nice big pile of spicy giardiniera. And they also serve it with honey, which is traditional. You can even have the honey drizzled all over the meat after they pull it out of the smoker. But it’s that same thing. It’s a sweetness the hot, spicy giardiniera, and that super rich, fatty meat is heaven. 

Cavanaugh: Oh, that sounds incredible. I wrote a couple of these as well. And one of them, of course, is the Italian beef from Johnnie’s. And, you know, I think that giardiniera’s best use is for cutting through all the beefy, fatty dishes. And so, you know, a hot Italian beef at Johnnie’s is a classic. But I also wrote about the giardiniera aioli at El Che Steakhouse, which I actually first had on a quail dish. They had a grilled quail that I was really obsessed with, and it was like this, the sauce formed the base of the dish. They don’t, it’s, it’s like the giardiniera aioli. So they use the oil leftover from J.P. Graziano giardiniera, add their own pickled cauliflower, blend it up, and it’s really, really good. And so they always have a quail, but they change it a lot, and they no longer offer that quail version, but they use that giardiniera aioli for their Italian beef empanadas, and it’s really good, really tasty. 

Kessler: That sounds amazing, and then didn’t you also write about the Tripping Billy giardiniera Salsa?

Cavanaugh: I did. He does it with Caruso’s, which we’ll talk about later as well. And yeah, he is, you know, the king of pop-ups, and so he created this giardiniera salsa, and it’s really good. It’s. I love how it’s, you know, it seems silly to say, but like, the giardiniera chunks can be, like, too big if you want to use them on something, like in a dish or something. So I like how it’s, there’s a little chunk to it, but it’s more blended. And so it like, works seamlessly on, like a breakfast taco or, you know, on nachos or something like that too. So that’s really tasty.

Kessler: Oh, that sounds great. What are some of the other ones that other writers wrote about? 

Cavanaugh: Yeah, so Maggie Hennessy wrote about the giardiniera cream cheese at Mindy’s Bakery, which, giardiniera cream cheese sounds absolutely fabulous, and Mindy’s bagels are, as we know, some of the best in town. Cate Huguelet wrote about the giardiniera focaccia at Zeitlin’s Delicatessen, which I’m really excited is opening a new shop in Lincoln Park, so not too far from me, which is great. And so they like bake the giardiniera into the focaccia, but then they also use it on a like as the bread for a turkey sandwich at the From Here On food hall, which is really cool. But I have to say that the one dish that people wrote about that I haven’t had that I that I’m like, dying to go try, is cheese fries with giardiniera. That’s a Titus Ruscitti pick. And I love cheese fries. And he talked about how the hot cheese and the hot fries with the cool giardiniera is this just like, unbelievable combination. And so, you know, you can certainly get them elsewhere at you know, I would think most hot dog stands that sell cheese fries will have some giardiniera they can toss on for you. But he’s particularly a fan of the one at Little Island in Evanston. Yeah, I had never heard of it, but they use Merkts cheddar, which, you know, is the best cheese fry cheese.

Kessler: That sounds like maybe I need to get my bike out when the weather’s nice, and bike up to Evanston and then reward myself with a big pile of that.

Cavanaugh: Yes, that sounds like a good summer activity. 

Cavanaugh: Another big part of this feature was your taste test, which really had some unexpected results. How—

Kessler: my god—

Cavanaugh: Walk me through it? How did you do this? 

Kessler: So it was a blind taste test. So what we did is we got a tavern-style pizza and just put some giardiniera on it, and I was working with some folks who were filming it, and they, you know, mixed things up. They knew what was what, and they brought them to me. And I will tell you, my picks surprised me. I was not expecting to like what I liked and not like what I didn’t like, which is why it’s a good idea to go blind on this. 

So when we sat down to do the taste test, I had a rubric that I looked at, and I judged the giardiniera on a bunch of different criteria. One was, how spicy was it? Because there was, like a real broad mix there. There was, you know, one from face melting to, I could put Sriracha in it to, you know, give a little more something going on. I looked at how crisp the vegetables were and how much of a variety of vegetables there were. You know, I like seeing nice little chunks of celery and olive and red pepper, and some of them have different kinds of spicy pepper, and I thought the variety made it more interesting. And then I tasted the oil, because, truth be told, some of the oil seemed a little off to me. 

Cavanaugh: You tasted seven, but let’s, let’s do three, two, one. What was in third? 

Kessler: So third for me was Mauro’s, which is a, you know, much loved local brand. And I thought it was very, very good. It was kind of one of the more complex ones. There was lots of red bell pepper and olive and other nice things in it. And it was just a nice, broad, pretty spicy flavor. I should also add that we just did the hot giardiniera, right? You know, go big or go home, right? And I thought it was just a really solid hot giardiniera. No. 2 is called Chicago Johnny’s. Have you seen that in shops? 

Cavanaugh: I have seen it, but I’ve never tried it. 

Kessler: It’s a little fancy. It’s a brand that is made with olive oil instead of, you know, expeller pressed canola oil, like everyone else’s is. So it’s a little different color. That oil is, like, slurpable stuff. It is delicious. It’s very hot. It’s not the most interesting mix of vegetables or the crispest texture, but it is just, it’s like the way the fat carries the flavor in that and to put that on top of something, that is, you know, just sort of let that flavor seep in, is great. So I, I’m a new fan, and I keep it at home now.

Cavanaugh: Oh yeah, that one sounds great. I know you mentioned just like, dipping bread in there. And I was like, that sounds like a really nice way to, you know, something to snack on while you make dinner.

Kessler: Right? We should, like, dip some of that giardiniera bread, that giardiniera focaccia, dip it in that oil and just, you know, let your mind explode.

Cavanaugh: You’ve got something there, I think.

Kessler: So, right? So my No. 1, big surprise! It was like one of the cheapest ones we tried, one of the most, easiest to get. The one you see in all the supermarkets. It’s Orlando’s. I loved it. The vegetables were crisp. The spice was great. And the thing I really loved about it is it was vinegary, you know, it wasn’t just so hot or so oily that that’s all you tasted. You got that, like, super bright, acidic vinegar thing going on. And so it’s the one I kind of, you know, had in back in my refrigerator, because it was, you know, what was available to Jewel. And I’m glad I have it. 

Cavanaugh: Yeah, you know, I have mostly been a J.P. Graziano enjoyer, but I’m gonna have to try this Orlando. I mean, it is the cheapest. So that’s, you know, that’s a surprising pick, really exciting. So I know there was one you didn’t quite enjoy,.

Kessler: Yeah, which was a surprise. It was Caruso, which I know is like the giardiniera that everyone says is one of the best. I picked up a jar of it at Agora Market, and to my taste, it seemed like the oil was rancid. And so I thought maybe it was a bad batch. So I went back to Agora Market, talked to them about it. They tasted a couple. They thought it tasted fine. I got another jar. And it wasn’t really rancid so much, but I just thought the oil had this, like this, sort of, I don’t know, weird old papery taste to it. And, yeah, and then I went and got Caruso from a completely different source, and I felt the same thing. So, but could’ve all been from a, you know, a batch that went off a little bit. I mean, you know, oil, you know, they are packed in clear glass jars, and it’s, you know, exposure to sunlight can give oil off flavors. So, you know, I’m definitely willing to give another try, but the three that I tried just didn’t do it for me. 

Cavanaugh: John, what’s the best thing you ate lately?

Kessler: So I met a friend from out of town who wanted to have a real Chicago dining experience. We went to Indienne, the tasting menu Indian restaurant, Michelin one star. And there was one dish there called scallop xec xec, with a Goan-style xec xec curry. It was just a beautiful scallop that had been seared, served with some Kaluga caviar and a corn sauce. And it was just like slurp, slurp, slurp. It was great. How about you? 

Cavanaugh: Sounds great. I went to the new Zarella, which is the Boka restaurant from Lee Wolen and Chris Pandel. It was super fun. That place is really resonating. While we were waiting for our table, there were, like, multiple people walking in trying to get seats and walking out because they couldn’t get bar seats. So it’s totally taken off. A lot of things to like here. I really like the artisan-style crust, but my favorite was the tavern-style pizza with the spicy vodka sauce. Really good tavern style like, I think it has to be in the conversation among this, like new wave of great tavern styles like Pizz’amici and Middle Brow. I like what’s happening here. I’m really here for these new tavern style takes. So tavern-style vodka sauce is really a pick.

Kessler: That sounds great. And I kind of want a, you know, a spicy vodka sauce martini now. 

Cavanaugh: I did have a pepperoncini martini with it. 

Kessler: Oh yeah? How was it? 

Cavanaugh: It was pretty good. It was less — I was worried it was going to be a little intense for me, but it was not so. 

Kessler: Okay. 

Cavanaugh: I’ve been trying dirty martinis around town, I feel like I’m gonna have to do something on those soon. 

Cavanaugh: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Dish From Chicago Magazine. Your hosts are dining editor Amy Cavanaugh and critic John Kessler, editing by Sarah Steimer and music by Bill Harris. You can find us online at Chicagomag.com Please be sure to follow, rate, and review us wherever you get your podcasts. We’ll see you next time.